Comments from readers of Hindustan times and rediff etc
And i fail to understand why i do not read BJPs stand point. I always read all this non-sense. From where i see Congress is playing dirty politics here as they believe that by showing this maturity BJP is gaining points so they just want to say something. I do not see BJP doing anything wrong. I have never read anything positive about Modi in National media. Why millions of Gujaratis treat him like God. Are they fools? Or the media sold out.... Congress is a dirty political party which has just ruled India without doing anything for national interest.
Why is secularism always preached to Hindus? Why cannot muslims also show some accomodation. If Hindus could give away two large chunks of their motherland to Muslims so that the rest could live in peace, why cannot muslims give away three of the holiest sites of hindus? Secularism and brotherhood cannot be one-way traffic. It may not matter to you, but it matters to millions of Hindus as to what is at the sites of Ayodhya, Kashi and Mathura when they go on piligrimage to these holy places and see huge imposing domes above the temples. Do not use twisted logic. Be truthful and then true secularism will flourish. You cannot have two laws for one country, else reaction from hindu community is certain. If the only muslim majority province in India does not want to remain in India, why should we have secularism? Everywhere all over the world, be it Russia, China, Phillipines or Thailand, the moment muslims are a majority in a province, they want freedom and then they eliminate the minority and form an islamic republic continuing the Jehad of Aurangazeb. India has given more rights and funds to Kashmir than to any other province in india. Under development is present in every state and rigging and corruption are present everywhere, but they are not asking for Azaadi!
ASI is the only organization who did the survey, and in case you dont believe in archeological surveys then you should stop reading history. ASI was not consist of hindus only, many renowned foreign archeologists like form Japan were also there in the team and so there is no question of conspiracy in the findings.
The historical proof of Lord Rama is the city of Ayodhya and the Ramayana . It is a historical belief among the Hindus that Ayodhya was the birth place of Lord Rama. This is not a new phenomenon just manufactured in recent years just because of the Ayodhya dispute. This belief has resonance in the temple discovered beneath the Babri Masjid, the rock inscription in nagari script of the King of Saketpura and Ayodhya from 12th century A.D.
My Dear Friends;
Some people do not know Hindi idealogy deeply however truth is that it is based on two wings ... Saakar Means God has a Form and Nirakar means God has no form Example : Sri Ramakrishna PramHans Worship the God in Form of Mother kali (Idol) and Swami Vivekananda who worship the God without any form means no idol and for your information Sri Ramakrishna PramHans is a Guru of Swami Vivekananda.So Idol worship is not a sin but it is one way to focus your energy to the God and this flexbilty is only provided by Hindu idealogy --Anuranjan Kumar
In Gujarat there are 8% Muslim population not approaching near zero like in Pakistan. Gujarai Muslims who have moved away to secularist Heaven of Bengal and Bihar has returned back realizing they need government that works, not one that TALKS only
Finally the muslims who burned old men, women and children to death provoked peaceful people of Gujarat (Gujaratis are famous for being meek, timid and cowardly) to become as barbaric and cruel as themselves. India is not ruled by Mugals or Nawabs any more. So one should realize that any terrorist act by Pakistan and its agents in India and elsewhere will be punished. In fact US/NATO is already executing your brethren in Pakistan indiscriminately from the sky!!! Maybe you like to join them in Pakistan.
He is telling you to be grateful for what India does for you...particularly looking at how non-Muslims in Islamic countries are treated.
So now people have a new tactic to belittle Hindus "Ram was not a real person and everything is based on fictional accounts"
Is god a real person? Can any court prove god exists? Should we then ask the courts to ban all religious books?
Allah is not real and its all a story so why do the muslims have faith? Can they prove he exists?
The question is not whether Ram is a real person or not. He is real in that a billion people believe in him. His life was cherished as a model of existence. Ram may be historical, he may be real, he may be a mythological personality ... that is not for a court or judge to decide. On the flip side one can argue whether Mohammed was indeed the messenger of God or some crazed lunatic who had epilepsy and a severe case of megalomania. One cannot help but wonder whether the world could have been spared the cancer called Islam, if only there was some prozac invented in the 7th century.
And a very active sausage that did not even spare a 6 year old CHILD. A very imaginative mind to manipulate the Arabs into giving them a Paradise,full of Virgins and nubile boys. He sold them a red light district.
Muslims should be happy with the 1/3rd land they have received. Clearly the High Court has played a balancing act here. Strictly speaking, they should not have been given a needle point of land.
Muslims need to be reminded time and again that they are "Immigrants" to India. They were invaders. They may be Indian citizens today, but they have not inherited India. They belong to a foreign culture. On the other hand, India is the homeland of the Hindus. Hindus have inherited India. Indian culture and Hindu culture are synonymous.
No country will treat immigrants better than India. Muslims should be content with what they are given.
Zuber Khan you are right in sense that most Indian Muslims are not foreign origin. But foreign origin should not matter. as a matter of fact well behaved foreigners are admired everywhere. The issue is failure of Muslims to live in harmony with the non-Muslims. Muslims have to accept that Invaders did destroyed many Hindu religious places and hurt Hindu religious feelings. They should be offering some of those places back to Hindus as goodwill gesture. They should stop behaving like what is yours is ours, but what is mine is mine alone, type of double standards. As Indian Muslims they should accept pagan faiths, Image worship etc. as valid alternative paths. If they start insisting might is right, then so will be Hindus. Tolerance and respect to others is two way street.
They did under same political constitution that prophet destroyed Al-Lat, Al-Uzi and Al-Manat. " The will of God". Now if you Muslims would admit that prophet’s actions were wrong and unjustified then you can say that Hindus actions were wrong. If you believe INDIAN CONSTITUTION supercedes Allah's command then let Muslim community announce it publicly and force Hindu community to say the same. But before that all your talk of Indian constitution and so on are not worth e-letter it is typed on.
Mr Zubaer Khan while it is true that all Muslims did nt come from outside almost all of them think that they did. Muslims don't like to be called "Babar ki Aulad" but they sure act like one. Why is the memory of Babar -- an invader of their land -- at least for those who did not come from outside -- is more dear to them than the temple of the son of the soil. And for your information aryans did not come from outside just because Max Muller said so. Those Muslims who think Babar is thier ancestor are most welcome to go where Babar's body is buried.
@Zuber, I am with Vinodgupt, truly, and one more thing I want to share is that I am an Indian and live in Canada. Here when you meet any Pakistni, they will say that they have no roots in India, almost all of them say they came from Afghanistan, they have no links in history to India, and this post from Zubar say not more than 5%.....which one to believe, your kins in Pak or you...
Mr Khan, I must say you are selectively ignorant! Use google and search tis terms (also i think you kno this better than us) - "umma", "kafer", "jihad". It is not the problem of islam, it is your problem that you are embracing a arabic religion and culture. Study the difference between culture and religion. I agree with you, you are a converted muslim by sword (no problem in that). Issue is, you also embracing the arabic culture of illeterate bedouins of desert tribe! Hope you understand me.
Well said but now that you are an Indian do you think its in National interest that Muslims happily give away a few Acres of land to Hindus which is for them what Mecca and Medina is for Muslims??
All grandstanding aside your opinion on this is what will differenciate you between a Muslim and an Indian? I have a feeling you wont want to give away anything to anyone...
Hindu across the World love India and so should all the Muslims love Pakistan. You are really a Moron. You should understand that Bharat is the only Country Hindus are originated from. And for that matter the Hindus across the World love Hindustan but they do not hate other countries / or Religion. But the Muslims not only Love Pakistan but at the same time hate all other religion.
All these years Muslims were shouting from roof top that they will accept the court verdict. Now that it has come they are raising new issues, as Jilani said on NDTV, according to Shariyat we cannot surrender the Mosque. So court verdict is now acceptable now. The tactics has been to dispute the whatever evidence, through rent-a-mob-scholars and lawyers and keep on moving the goalpost. Muslim leadership has not only missed a great opportunit for reconciliation. Now there is an attempt to provoke the BJP, threaten the Congress govt and pressurise the Supreme Court.
This is extremely disgraceful.Muslims are further deteriorating their image in the eyes of the people of this country by making such stupid claims at "injustice".But more than Muslims,it is the secular intelligentsia that is in utter disbelief.Their bread and butter have been snatched by the court.They are now attempting to attach the tag "controversial" to the judgment.This is similar to the attempts they made to whitewash history of Islamic iconoclasm.
To convincing you impartiality is like convincing Hitler that as people Jews are not bad people. So I would not even bother. The only way to deal with such South Asian Muslims is the way Europeans dealt with Sudetanland Germans. Now I can understand moral dilemma faced by the victims of Nazism that they were forced to behave in the same way as Nazis behaved. There is tragedy of Hindus. It seems like due to Muslim intransigence, they would have to behave like Muslims.
I think it is time to file a petition on behalf of the Idols of Mecca's Kaabba against the Prophet for breaking the Idols. Then, our Islamists will understand the link between documented proof and religion! We are the great Idol worshipers and our Idols are living being, divine, and can file against an invader like Babar. This is the fact, and being proved by the verdict. Now, please do not harp on it, otherwise, soon Hindus will file to regain the control of Kaabba.
It doe not matter. It does not matter that Allah exists or not. Prophet's followers believed he existed and assumed his command to destroy the temple of Al-Late, Al- Uzi and Al-Manatee. Now if Bikram were to file a petition on behalf of the Idols of Mecca's Kaabba against the Prophet for breaking the Idolsand for that action the_illusive_man supports chopping his head off, then using the_illusive_man’s logic Hindus will be justified in doing the same thing to Indian Muslims for daring to file petition against Ram Mandir in Ayodhya. Unless of course Muslims believe they are Herrenvolk and Kaffirs are Untermensch, master race and subhuman respectively
"Believe" should be good enough..Even Muslims cannot prove "Allah" exists. They cannot prove that Koran is revealed text and God's word..They can only "Believe" that...
The court case was fought for the Religion, by the Religion, so what do you expect Mr. Illusive Man...The Judgement would have to be based on Religion too :)
thats good. If you go to heaven(your hell) there virgins would be waiting for you. hahahahahah. even i studied this in science books.
btw why shud allah (we call it bhagwaan some others call it god) have anything to do with supplying you with virgins etc. may be science has something to do with it. so why cant all of you die and get to virgins.
For over 700 years Islamists have built on some of Hinduism's most sacred sites and created a direct affront and provocation to the peace loving Hindus. Untold number of temples were vandalized and statues brutalized. The brutal soldiers of Muhammed fanned out from Arabia and spread a reign of terror, destruction and domination. And now they talk of justice and property rights? What sort of lop-sided hypocrisy is this?
Someone has rightly said that democracy and secularism is the last refuge of the extremist. India is the last refuge of Islamic fundamentalists. Let them learn to respect other religions, beliefs and cultures .. only then will they come to peace with themselves and command the respect that they seek.
I wonder why, in spite of so many people having such strong feelings against these so called 'secular' muslim buggers, it so happens that the spineless Congress party manages to find a way to gain power at the center time and again. It seems they feel ashamed about fulfilling the aspiration of Hindus....for some weird freakin' reason. I can't imagine how a Hindu Congress party worker can sleep peacefully at night knowing very well that his parent organization is trying to jeopardize the standing of Hindus in this nation.
For some reason unbeknown to me, I seem to get a feeling that 'Secularism' in this country is defined not by how equally each religion is treated, but by the continuous compromise that Hindus are expected to make as a majority community to keep peace in the country and by how much others can ridicule Hindus in their own land.
It was the presence of small, independent kingdoms earlier that kept the Hindus from presenting a united front first against the Mughals and then against the British, and now its 'vote-bank' politics. I read articles mentioning the fact that some states are considering providing reservation to Muslims. I personally feel that is a daft idea, but if that is to be allowed, first the Constitution should be amended and India should be declared a majority Hindu nation.
No point in hoping to live in peace with this violent, scheming, brutal race that is still stuck in the medieval era and refuses to move ahead with the times. Enough is enough. It is time to call a spade and spade.
Muslims in India should consider themselves really fortunate.
Israelis still pursue the Nazis who destroyed Jewish heritage among other things. Muslims need to accept that their ancestors, who were intolerant of other religions, promoted forcible conversions, levied jeziah and destroyed hindu temples wantonly. One cannot turn a blind eye to the temples desecrated at Hampi, Belur and Halebid and many more. Wherever possible, Mosques were built on prominent hindu temples because they lived during times when might was right.
In a secular India, why is it that Muslims find it difficult to accept this? Why do they find it difficult to accept Hindus want their heritage back? If Muslims find it difficult to give up a mosque which was built on a temple in the first place, how should hindus feel about the temple?
Maturity is not in just promoting plurality of India by empty talk, Maturity is when we accept our past, right the wrongs where possible, and then move on the road where possible.
You are wrong. See 1750 to 1850's map of india, then you can see how martha kingdom and sikh empire had taken back from more than half of india. In fact Ranjit Singh and his decedents was ruling most of westpakistan, kashmir with lagore as capital until 1850 when sikh empire was defeated by british. If british hadn't come to india you guys and saved you, you would be singing ram bajans !!
First ask your intolerant anti-kafir paki mind why you guys give trouble and act special where-ever you go. You ( pakimuslims ) could not even live with Bengali muslims (east pakistan) for 25 years and killed 10 million east pakistanis. Hindus love and watch SRK, Salman Khan, Amir Khan movies. Do any minority community guy have become hero in any of paki movies ?
Nothing but a criminal attitude.
Hindus kept 1000yrs of islamic terrorism behind them. But still about half of the land was given to them to make their homeland(Pak). Instead of sharing the power with hindus they were driven out from pak.
Even then our forefathers decided to share the power with all in the land given to hindus(India).!!
What more secularism you muslims want? Is there one such community(like Hindus) in the entire history of planet? The result is ethnic cleansing in Kashmir? The result is we can not get a small piece of land which is sacred for us and nothing for you? You do not want to give our sacred land for us? Is it because you just want to islamize India? If not what is the motive behind obstructing the temple which is sacred to a massive faith?
Your stubborn behaviour would only lead to liberation of our other temples.
Please grow up. Live and let others live.
The judgment is based on law and Indian constitution. The verdict is so well derived that its almost impossible that it will be overturned by Supreme court. I challenge its the final verdict and final solution. The high court has solved the issue.
The court was asked whether Ram is "believed to be born on that place". The waqf board had argued Hindus started saying it birthplace only after 1949. The court referenced about 120 accounts of travellers to established that same place is believed as Ramjanmabhoomi for time immemorial.
The court was asked if there was a temple before ? It referred to the ASI report.
The deity Ram was given a third of land by article 25 of constitution which entitles state protection to most important beliefs.
None of the claiments proved that they possessed the land. The court reffered to ancient brotherhood and divided the remaining land between Hindus and Muslims.
A very prudent judgement which is the ultimate solution, whether you accept it now or latter.
I simply can't understand the fuss the court has transgressed. Because the media believed that court can't solve this issue and it has been proved wrong it is giving false impression of judgement to the people.
Please bring on the debate. Because it is simple. Islamic invaders came from outside of India. They killed and converted hundreds and thousands of Indians. They pillaged and destroyed Indian heritage. They are still doing it -- recall Bamiyan statues. There was a revolt against these monstrosities -- Sikhs, Maratha and so on. But then the Europeans came and the attention got diverted. Now after 7-800 years Bharat is awakening and returning to its roots. Ram is and was a part of Indian soul even before Islam existed. Ram is a part of Indian ethos. And it WILL be restored. A wrong committed 800 years ago is a still a WRONG. And it has to be righted.
Oh really. And you replaced it by oppressing Hindus, k i l l i n g them for not converting to islam, putting Guro Tag Bahadur on a metal plate, k i l l in n g Guru Gobins children we know our history.
Do tell us where you also liberating the oppressed Americans in New York on 9/11? Or how about the Balkans, where you divided and partitioned the country. The muslims have lied there way in history we know all about you.
There is even proof in muslims books that you destroyed temples ...
The literary evidence stated below is in chronological order with reference to the time at which a particular work was written.
Name Of The Book: Hindustan Islami Ahad mein (India under Islamic Rule)
Name Of The Historian: Maulana Abdul Hai.
About The Author: He is a highly respected scholar and taken as an authority on Islamic history. Because of his scholarship and his services to Islam, Maulana Abdul Hai was appointed as the Rector of the Darul Nadwa Ullum Nadwatal-Ulama. He continued in that post till his death in February 1923.
The following section is taken from the chapter Hindustan ki Masjidein (The mosques of India) of the above mentioned book. Here we can see a brief description of few important mosques in India and how each one of them was built upon plundered Hindu temples.
1. Qawwat al-Islam Mosque at Delhi:
"According to my findings the first mosque of Delhi is Qubbat al-Islam or Quwwat al_Islam which, Qutubud-Din Aibak constructed in H. 587 after demolishing the hindu temple built by Prithvi Raj and leaving certain parts of the temple outside the mosque proper; and when he returned from Ghazni in H. 592 he started building, under orders from Shihabud -Din Ghori, a huge mosque of inimitable red stones, and certain parts of the temple were included in the mosque..."
2. The Mosque at Jaunpur:
"This was built by Sultan Ibrahim Sharqi with chiselled stones. Originally it was a Hindu temple after demolishing which he constructed the mosque. It is known as the Atala Masjid.."
3. The Mosque at Qanauj:
"It is well known that this mosque was built on the foundations of some Hindu temple that stood here. The mosque was built by Ibrahim Sharqi in H. 809 as is recorded in Gharbat Nigar"
4. Jami Masjid at Etwah:
"This mosque stands on the bank of the Jamuna at Etawah. There was a Hindu temple at this place, on the site of which this mosque was constructed.."
5. Babri Masjid at Ayodhya:
"This mosque was constructed by Babar at Ayodhya which Hindus call the birth place of Ramchandraji... Sita had a temple here in which she lived and cooked for her husband. On that very site Babar constructed this mosque in H.963 "
6. Mosque at Benaras:
"Mosque of Benares was built by Alamgir Aurangzeb on the site of Bisheshwar Temple. That temple was very tall and held as holy among Hindus. On this very site and with those very stones he constructed a lofty mosque, and its ancient stones were rearranged after being embedded in the walls of the mosque. It is one of the renowned mosques of Hindustan."
7. Mosque at Mathura:
"Alamgir Aurangzeb built a mosque at Mathura. This mosque was built on site of the Govind Dev Temple which was very strong and beautiful as well as exquisite.."
Name Of The Book: Futuhu'l-Buldan
Name Of The Historian: Ahmed bin Yahya bin Jabir
About The Author: This author is also known as al- Biladhuri. He lived at the court of Khalifa Al- Mutawakkal (AD 847-861) and died in AD 893. His history is one of the major Arab chronicles.
To to the Sikh history it is just 550 years old,
Golden temple was occupied by Ahmed shah abdali ,was retaken by Sikhs
Guru Angad was made to sit on hot tawa as he refused to convert
Guru Teg Bahadur was beheaded at chandni chowk Delhi because he refused conversion,he did this for kashmiri pandits who sought his protection from the convesion spree let loose by Aurenzeb
Guru Govind singhs sons were buried alive in bricks at fathegarh Punjab as they refused conversion
Banda Bahadur was made to eat his kids flesh as a torture for his refusal to convert
This history is just 350 years old
The destroying of religious places,and forcible conversion are a part of islamic history,Babri mosque is no different
I would like to add, even today, in Afghanistan, Muslims step over Prithivraj Chauhan's tomb every day as a mark of disrespect to whom they consider as Kafir.
But I guess our secular muslims do not have any qualms about that.
MUSLIMS IN MINORITY ARE LIKE THEY R IN INDIA BUT WHEN IN MAJORITY THE SAME BUNCH BEHAVE LIKE THE ONES IN AFGHANISTAN OR KASHMIR VALLEY. ITS TIME TO GIVE THESE DISGRACE TO HUMANITY WHAT THEY DESERVE-YOU KNOW WHAT.
Very simple -
Muslims know that very well - rightly or wrongly Hindus believe for millenniums Rama and Ramayana. This is a fact.
I do not argue on this as we cannot argue on stories of Koran or bible.
There is no doubt and all the judges agree that there are remains of temple below the mosque. We all agree on that. It is difficult to ascertain if the temple was already broken when the mosque was constructed or the temple was broken for constructing mosque. Our common sense says the later may be true. Babur had no crunch of land those days
SO WHY ARE MUSLIMS SO ADAMENT TO MAKE THE MOSQUE AT THE SAME PLACE? They must realize they will suffer heavy casualties if riots take place now. Hindus are far more organized now.
SO HAVE SENSE AND ACCEPT GRACEFULLY THE VERDICT OF HIGH COURT and live in peace.
Muslims , Get the msg "Mugul" days have gone, stop dreaming about "Gazwa e hind"
I wish Hindusthan Times could block the comments getting posted from across the border. This is our internal debate, quite sensitive issue and I really can smell Pakistani and ISI fingers typing in a lot of provocative posts here. Please block all Pakistani IP address - they are using this news item to spread chaos in our country. This is as bad as the intruders in Kargil.
Any Muslim who thinks Sharia law is more important than Indian laws is a traitor and does not deserve to be in India...he is better off in Pakistan where Sharia rules supreme.
If we pick & choose everything in this materialistic world for full filling of our individual basic instincts then we are prone to become barbaric who brutalize this world for appropriating everything for our selfish ends.
1.) Denying depraved damages & destructions & deaths perpetuated by barbaric cruel invaders in India & elsewhere in the wold has become universally pliable political trend.
2.) Continuous suppression & twisting of historical factual truths has accumulated in stinking stagnated heap of lies which can not be buried by any gruesome tyrant of terrorism..
3.) Any larger or smaller debate on Ayodhya has to reckon with irrefutable fact that lord Rama is the presiding deity of Ayodhya from times immemorial.
4.) Invaders destroyed most revered religious symbols of lord Rama in Ayodhya & used the material from their ruins to build their own symbols of assertive religious presence.
Similar misadventures were repeated in all holy places of worship including Varanasi Mathura.& many other places sacred to many preexisting indegenous religions of India.
5.) Forcible conversions by coercive tyrant tortures were the hall mark of autocratic rulers.
6.) Cultural social & religious evolution in India had been in most advanced stages when external invaders tried to decimate them for running writ of their own faith.
7.) Despite many infrastructural heritage relics having been destroyed in India by cruel invaders who were plundering habitual looters the traditional religious beliefs of Hinduism Jainism Bhudhism & various other non violent faiths survived & prospered despite all odds through verbal or documented perpetuation.
8.) Hinduism Bhudhism & Jainism survived & spread by non violent means because these are not at all strictly close ended codes oriented faiths & have always transformed as per needs of changing way of life according to the variation of time place & persons.
9.) All forms of rituals & individual preferences in practicing religious beliefs in Hinduism Budhism Jainism are validated & are held in high esteem.
10.) Idol worship was resorted to perpetually remember & respect our ancestors whose existence is matter of fact but cannot be pin pointed exactly in any frame work parameters of time & space.
Similarly existence of lord Rama lord Krishna & all other our revered deities is irrefutable matter of fact which is ardently supported by our faith in our unshakable religious beliefs.
No entities should try to deny & distort any facts of history howsoever reprehensible they may be yet the lessons must be learnt so as not to repeat such oddities of tyrant treasons.
Most dangerous & deviant will be any effort by any entity to undo & nullify Ayodhya court verdict through back door conspiracies by resorting to any constitutional amendments applicable retrospectively.
Most sagacious sane sedate serene way is accommodative constructive conclusive time bound dialog between contending & vociferously legally contesting entities with the spirit to of give & take to embark upon mutually agreed path of maximizing all round pacification & for final corrective remedial measure to erase as for as possible aberrations of history in order to henceforth immediately facilitate peaceful fraternizing & friendly coexistence of majority & all minorities in India.
Roger_the_king 1 day ago
They now want to hold onto the 1/3rd alms given to them by magnanimous Hindus and turn it into a mosque and then grab the remaining 2/3rds through SC ! Wow! These moslems.......They got Pakistan and Bangladesh and remained back in India to finish the task of islamizing India. They are getting there almost with self-destructive non-moslems like Vir Sangvi and his ilk......Hindus, fight for that 1/3rd piece of land given to these anti-nationals. Lets not be complacent. Moslems, it is proven time and again, don't believe in any secularism unless it is Islam!
Rohit Kumar 1 day ago
This is the problem with muslims, if you give them their part, they will demand for all. They would never try living in peace.
Hindus have tolerated all faiths - be it Christians in Kerala or Parsis in Gujarat and Muslims in Ajmersharif or even communists in Bengal. Still these faiths do not show any understanding for the Hindu pain. That Sri Ram existed is questioned by some and needs to be answered. That there was a temple there is another.Here is a finding that may throw some light :
Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon).
This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114 BC. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7121 years back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India.
Ask a Muslim, whether Islam has in its history of nearly 1400 years, has done any wrong to anyone. Overrunning of Egypt, North Africa, Lebanon, Syria, Central Asia, Spain, Greece- extracting Jiziya from non-Muslims, converting churches, temples in mosques, destruction of Buddhist universities like Nalanda. What was so wrong in all of them- Jihad had to be declared against them simply because they refused to embrace Islam. Rather all wrongs and injustices of the world have been committed against Muslims, which need to be redressed, if necessary retributed. Is it not?
Actually Hindus should be cautious here. Their aim should be to of much larger than this temple or other temple issues. If Hindus can construct a temple here, Muslims will destruct temples in many other places like Assam and West Bengal. They are in precarious condition. Congress will go to any length to appease to attract Muslim vote bank.
There is nothing really like secular Islam ans secular Muslim. It is just convenience for certain Muslims to speak for secularism at present. But their ultimate goal is Sharia.
Hindus should not look to BJP; every Hindu should learn what is Sharia and what is in Islamic doctrines. When one tries to read they will find that ultimate test of faith for Muslims is to succeed in bringing the whole world under Sharia. There are numerous calls for Jihad in Koran and Islamic traditions.
If a Hindu knows this, then he should try to educate others about this. This is struggle for existence, nothing less. The best way to learn about Islam is read from their proper authentic Islamic sources; Like translations of Koran from yusuf ali, pickthall and Shakir or Hilali. Vast research was done on Islamic doctrines by infidels and it is available on the net.
Unless Indians realised the facts, the bitter facts, the Muslim problem will not go away. In the psyche of Muslims, it is a injustice unless the judgement is in their favour 100%. If the verdict is not of their liking, such as Ayodhya verdict, then Islam is in danger, minority has been cheated, "Saffron terrorism" is driving Muslims to alienation etc. Then Islamic terrorism starts as in Kashmir, 26/11 etc. In simple English, Muslims must have 100% in their favour or jihad is coming.
I fail to understand , the question asked to the court was that " was mosque constructed after demolishing a temple" to which court has ruled in affirmative , where is the controversy ??,
The real controversy is the Sunni waqf board's stand , which is both legally and morally wrong , here's how..
1. The suit filed by sunni waqf board is in 1961 , 12-13 yrs after the initial title suit was filed in 1949, as per the law any contention has to be filed within 5 years so there is a legal technicality here...
2. second and most important "Mir Baki" who built the mosque on the orders Babar was a "SHIA" and therefore could not have given to Sunni waqf board....
So there is no question of sunni board trying to get the possession of the disputed land except to incite hatred and of course secular media has come to there help as always with the help of some eminent historians..
Yes, They should convert to Islam if they wish to burn in hell fire and to Buddhism or Hinduism if they want to explore possibility of Moksha or Nirvana. Choice is theirs. But a convert to Islam will be surely get hell fire because they chose it, as opposed to a person born in Islam because he is born in Islam as result of his karma in previous life.
If the AIMPLB cannot accept the verdict, then it has the right to "debate its nature" at the Supreme Court. The call for "larger national debate" by the AIMPLB only proves that it does not standby the Indian constitution and its secular society. The AIMPLB must never be allowed to revise India's map and re-write its constitution. It is most unfortunate that the AIMPLB is considered at the 'worst in-house enemy" of the Indian Muslims.
HT
I have news for the leader of Germany. The Muslims cater only to their own culture and religion. That's why the world is getting turned upside down, trying to cater to their way of thinking. No one wants their culture, accept them and they are not permitted to adapt to any other culture! That's exactly why they are trying to take over the world. They will threaten and intimidate everyone they can to get their way. They have no other choice. I feel sorry for the German leaders and the people because they are going to go down the same road as France. The difference is that France stood up and resisted the laws of the Muslims, which is what must be done if you don't want them to take over and have complete control! There is only one culture that they are permitted to live and that is their own!!! They are using America's constitution against America, to get their way! Before long, our supreme court will be forced to give in to them because we must be tolerant, while they are NOT!!
To understand Muslims and Quran, three things people should know:
1. The Quran must be taken literally; it is not full of symbolism or vague commands. It is a book written by Mohammad during his lifetime. If two passages contradict each other, the later one is to be followed. The peaceful, tolerant passages were written earlier; they are abrogated by later more violent, less tolerant passages. Muslims are not permitted to pick and choose, alter, or ignore any part of its very clear and direct message, or they will burn in a fiery torment forever.
2. Striving to implement sharia law is a religious duty for every Muslim. Many people don’t realize how politically oriented Islam is at it’s core. It’s less of a religion than it is an “ideology”. It includes a mandatory and highly specific legal and political plan for all people, everywhere, the plan is Sharia Law. There is no separation between the religious and the political in Islam. Islam and Sharia constitute a totalitarian means of ordering society at every level, including ritual worship transactions and contracts, morals and manners, beliefs and punishments. In the Quran, Allah makes it clear that man made governments, such as a democracy, and free speech, such as criticizing the Quran and Mohammed, are abominations and must be eliminated and punished by death. The modern expression ‘creeping sharia’ is used to describe the slow, deliberate and methodical advance of Islamic law in Non-Muslim countries. Official Sharia courts already operate in the UK, handling cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to domestic violence. Attempts to introduce Sharia into the legal system in Germany, Sweden and other European countries are ongoing. Sharia already has a foot in our door in the matter of minor disputes like inheritance and domestic violence; it should concern you that Sharia commands that drinkers and gamblers be whipped, husbands be allowed to beat their wives, allows an injured plaintiff to exact revenge… literally an eye for an eye; commands that a thief must have a hand cut off, commands that homosexuals be executed, unmarried fornicators be whipped, adulterers must be stoned to death; orders death for Muslim and non Muslim critics of Mohammed, the Quran and sharia; orders apostates to be murdered. Sharia and the Quran demand that offensive, aggressive and unjust jihad be implemented in non Muslim countries. It is written in the Quran that Sharia is the law of Allah and other forms of government are a sin. It is the duty of every Muslim to keep striving until all governments have been converted to Sharia law or obliterated.
3. Muslims are permitted to lie to non Muslims if it helps Islam; for non Muslims this principle called Taquiyya is a surprising concept. While other religions speak of truthfulness, the Quran tells Muslims to lie to non Muslims about their belief and political ambitions in order to protect and spread Islam. There are many examples of today’s Islamic leaders saying one thing in English for the western press and then something entirely different to their followers in Arabic. Deceiving the enemy is always useful in war and Islam is always at war with the non Islamic world until all follow sharia law. All non Muslims living in non Islamic states are enemies; deceiving the west is totally acceptable and encouraged if it forward the goals of the spread of Islam..
first of all you are describing one version of Islam.
second, muslims are allowed to lie and trick people only on battle field (makes sense right)
third, the Islam in not a religion of worship only, it is a religion that is practical and sensitive to society needs, and it favors society before the individual. (sounds political doesn't it)
So, how many versions are there - a peaceful version, a violent version, a terrorist version?
For your second point, Muslims consider all non-Muslims countries as battlefields.
For your thord point, the practical and sensitive part is to draw people to it and convince people to convert. That is the trick.
It is very political, that is why Muslims are able to confuse everyone and say Quran is peaceful.
Hey Safiahmed, name one country where Muslims are making it a better place to live. Name one country where radicals of YOUR religion have not hijacked the country and turned it into a cesspool of fear and hatred.
Name ONE country where Islam is helping everyone, women included, achieve a better life.
I desperatly wish the moderate Muslims take control of their religion around the world, so that mankind can move one step closer to acting like brothers, instead of competitors.
Radical Islam is now the largest problem in the world. Overshadowing pollution, the slave trade, and the human rights violations of some of the larger countries in the world.
Peace be with you. Asa lama leikum.
The westerners came and made you prosperous,over the period the Muslim governments could have taken over the institutions,they did not,simply because
democracy,human freedom was crushed by their rulers,
no education,
no equality ,
no college,no universities
only religious fundamentalism was encouraged
Their infighting made easy for minority,war striken jews to make their homeland
They never invested in the most precious resource a country has,its human beings
Rulers drunk with power opiated the masses with religion
Their veiw point of Islam being the exclusive god send religion for people added to all their miseries
I have news for the leader of Germany. The Muslims cater only to their own culture and religion. That's why the world is getting turned upside down, trying to cater to their way of thinking. No one wants their culture, accept them and they are not permitted to adapt to any other culture! That's exactly why they are trying to take over the world. They will threaten and intimidate everyone they can to get their way. They have no other choice. I feel sorry for the German leaders and the people because they are going to go down the same road as France. The difference is that France stood up and resisted the laws of the Muslims, which is what must be done if you don't want them to take over and have complete control! There is only one culture that they are permitted to live and that is their own!!! They are using America's constitution against America, to get their way! Before long, our supreme court will be forced to give in to them because we must be tolerant, while they are NOT!!
If I came to live in your house, and after you accepted me as your guest, I tried to tell you that your way of life is no good and that you should in fact live like me in your house. How would you like that?
That is what the muslims are doing. They want the whole world to live the islamic way of life when the visit a muslim country and yet when the muslims step outside of their world and go to other parts of the world, they don't want to live like the way of their host. There is a saying which goes," In Rome live like the Romans do."
You cannot expect to migrate to different parts of the world and expect others to live a isolated life. Mix with the society and these issues would not come up. I don't expect muslims in west to live a non islamic life style within their own homes, but out side they should make an effort to mix and not expect the host country to convert to islamic way of life. We have in the west, migrants who have nothing of their own, seek refuge and get social and financial benefit without contributing to the society, and yet demonise the host country.
If these attitudes do not change, then there will be more comments from world leaders similar to the ones made by Germny and France.
Interesting - the Muslims are generally a peaceful people, but with a political agenda. They are attempting to literally take over the world by force without firing a shot. They migrate all over Europe and the U.S. and other places and impose their religion and Sharia law on the people under the guise of " if you don't allow us to do this, we will pull the race card out". Upon pulling of said "race card", they have a free ticket to do whatever they want where ever they want. For example - the ground zero mosque, or look at what has happened to France and Norway and Sweden. I hope France continuses to push back, the U.S. is only a couple steps behind the situation in Europe. All this without firing a shot, quite an agenda, no?
Dudeman, you are spot on. When a Muslim says he wants peace, he is saying that when you and I (as well as the whole world) become Muslim, too, then there will be peace. And not until then. This definition is straight from the lips of honest Muslims. Peace means total adherence to Islam.
Here's the bottom line: The Muslims are a political cancer that is fast spreading throughout the world, and like cancer, we have no cure. Yes, Muslims are less about religion and more about political takeover, don't take my word for it, it's clearly spelled out in the Koran ( or Quran, or Kuran or however it is spelled ).
See I dont have any hard feelings towards my Muslim brothers but please don't berate Hinduism by saying that it promotes Monotheism. Hinduism and its offshoot Buddhism believe in the fact that there are many paths to God and our path may or may not be the correct one, and hence the respect for all religions. I dont know what Islam promotes but the fact remains that people do not see Islam as promoting universal brotherhood. Hinduism on the other hand may or may not be perfect but it did promote the spread of a number of religions such as Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism in the Indian subcontinent which speaks volumes for its polytheistic nature.
In Turkey, Muslims do not allow a cross from showing up over an Armenian church, at another Armenian Church the Turkish Ultra Nationalist party desecrates the church by holding an Islamic Friday prayer yet in Germany and Europe they want equality and human rights.
Why is secularism always preached to Hindus? Why cannot muslims also show some accomodation. If Hindus could give away two large chunks of their motherland to Muslims so that the rest could live in peace, why cannot muslims give away three of the holiest sites of hindus? Secularism and brotherhood cannot be one-way traffic. It may not matter to you, but it matters to millions of Hindus as to what is at the sites of Ayodhya, Kashi and Mathura when they go on piligrimage to these holy places and see huge imposing domes above the temples. Do not use twisted logic. Be truthful and then true secularism will flourish. You cannot have two laws for one country, else reaction from hindu community is certain. If the only muslim majority province in India does not want to remain in India, why should we have secularism? Everywhere all over the world, be it Russia, China, Phillipines or Thailand, the moment muslims are a majority in a province, they want freedom and then they eliminate the minority and form an islamic republic continuing the Jehad of Aurangazeb. India has given more rights and funds to Kashmir than to any other province in india. Under development is present in every state and rigging and corruption are present everywhere, but they are not asking for Azaadi!
ASI is the only organization who did the survey, and in case you dont believe in archeological surveys then you should stop reading history. ASI was not consist of hindus only, many renowned foreign archeologists like form Japan were also there in the team and so there is no question of conspiracy in the findings.
The historical proof of Lord Rama is the city of Ayodhya and the Ramayana . It is a historical belief among the Hindus that Ayodhya was the birth place of Lord Rama. This is not a new phenomenon just manufactured in recent years just because of the Ayodhya dispute. This belief has resonance in the temple discovered beneath the Babri Masjid, the rock inscription in nagari script of the King of Saketpura and Ayodhya from 12th century A.D.
My Dear Friends;
Some people do not know Hindi idealogy deeply however truth is that it is based on two wings ... Saakar Means God has a Form and Nirakar means God has no form Example : Sri Ramakrishna PramHans Worship the God in Form of Mother kali (Idol) and Swami Vivekananda who worship the God without any form means no idol and for your information Sri Ramakrishna PramHans is a Guru of Swami Vivekananda.So Idol worship is not a sin but it is one way to focus your energy to the God and this flexbilty is only provided by Hindu idealogy --Anuranjan Kumar
In Gujarat there are 8% Muslim population not approaching near zero like in Pakistan. Gujarai Muslims who have moved away to secularist Heaven of Bengal and Bihar has returned back realizing they need government that works, not one that TALKS only
Finally the muslims who burned old men, women and children to death provoked peaceful people of Gujarat (Gujaratis are famous for being meek, timid and cowardly) to become as barbaric and cruel as themselves. India is not ruled by Mugals or Nawabs any more. So one should realize that any terrorist act by Pakistan and its agents in India and elsewhere will be punished. In fact US/NATO is already executing your brethren in Pakistan indiscriminately from the sky!!! Maybe you like to join them in Pakistan.
He is telling you to be grateful for what India does for you...particularly looking at how non-Muslims in Islamic countries are treated.
So now people have a new tactic to belittle Hindus "Ram was not a real person and everything is based on fictional accounts"
Is god a real person? Can any court prove god exists? Should we then ask the courts to ban all religious books?
Allah is not real and its all a story so why do the muslims have faith? Can they prove he exists?
The question is not whether Ram is a real person or not. He is real in that a billion people believe in him. His life was cherished as a model of existence. Ram may be historical, he may be real, he may be a mythological personality ... that is not for a court or judge to decide. On the flip side one can argue whether Mohammed was indeed the messenger of God or some crazed lunatic who had epilepsy and a severe case of megalomania. One cannot help but wonder whether the world could have been spared the cancer called Islam, if only there was some prozac invented in the 7th century.
And a very active sausage that did not even spare a 6 year old CHILD. A very imaginative mind to manipulate the Arabs into giving them a Paradise,full of Virgins and nubile boys. He sold them a red light district.
Muslims should be happy with the 1/3rd land they have received. Clearly the High Court has played a balancing act here. Strictly speaking, they should not have been given a needle point of land.
Muslims need to be reminded time and again that they are "Immigrants" to India. They were invaders. They may be Indian citizens today, but they have not inherited India. They belong to a foreign culture. On the other hand, India is the homeland of the Hindus. Hindus have inherited India. Indian culture and Hindu culture are synonymous.
No country will treat immigrants better than India. Muslims should be content with what they are given.
Zuber Khan you are right in sense that most Indian Muslims are not foreign origin. But foreign origin should not matter. as a matter of fact well behaved foreigners are admired everywhere. The issue is failure of Muslims to live in harmony with the non-Muslims. Muslims have to accept that Invaders did destroyed many Hindu religious places and hurt Hindu religious feelings. They should be offering some of those places back to Hindus as goodwill gesture. They should stop behaving like what is yours is ours, but what is mine is mine alone, type of double standards. As Indian Muslims they should accept pagan faiths, Image worship etc. as valid alternative paths. If they start insisting might is right, then so will be Hindus. Tolerance and respect to others is two way street.
They did under same political constitution that prophet destroyed Al-Lat, Al-Uzi and Al-Manat. " The will of God". Now if you Muslims would admit that prophet’s actions were wrong and unjustified then you can say that Hindus actions were wrong. If you believe INDIAN CONSTITUTION supercedes Allah's command then let Muslim community announce it publicly and force Hindu community to say the same. But before that all your talk of Indian constitution and so on are not worth e-letter it is typed on.
Mr Zubaer Khan while it is true that all Muslims did nt come from outside almost all of them think that they did. Muslims don't like to be called "Babar ki Aulad" but they sure act like one. Why is the memory of Babar -- an invader of their land -- at least for those who did not come from outside -- is more dear to them than the temple of the son of the soil. And for your information aryans did not come from outside just because Max Muller said so. Those Muslims who think Babar is thier ancestor are most welcome to go where Babar's body is buried.
@Zuber, I am with Vinodgupt, truly, and one more thing I want to share is that I am an Indian and live in Canada. Here when you meet any Pakistni, they will say that they have no roots in India, almost all of them say they came from Afghanistan, they have no links in history to India, and this post from Zubar say not more than 5%.....which one to believe, your kins in Pak or you...
Mr Khan, I must say you are selectively ignorant! Use google and search tis terms (also i think you kno this better than us) - "umma", "kafer", "jihad". It is not the problem of islam, it is your problem that you are embracing a arabic religion and culture. Study the difference between culture and religion. I agree with you, you are a converted muslim by sword (no problem in that). Issue is, you also embracing the arabic culture of illeterate bedouins of desert tribe! Hope you understand me.
Well said but now that you are an Indian do you think its in National interest that Muslims happily give away a few Acres of land to Hindus which is for them what Mecca and Medina is for Muslims??
All grandstanding aside your opinion on this is what will differenciate you between a Muslim and an Indian? I have a feeling you wont want to give away anything to anyone...
Hindu across the World love India and so should all the Muslims love Pakistan. You are really a Moron. You should understand that Bharat is the only Country Hindus are originated from. And for that matter the Hindus across the World love Hindustan but they do not hate other countries / or Religion. But the Muslims not only Love Pakistan but at the same time hate all other religion.
All these years Muslims were shouting from roof top that they will accept the court verdict. Now that it has come they are raising new issues, as Jilani said on NDTV, according to Shariyat we cannot surrender the Mosque. So court verdict is now acceptable now. The tactics has been to dispute the whatever evidence, through rent-a-mob-scholars and lawyers and keep on moving the goalpost. Muslim leadership has not only missed a great opportunit for reconciliation. Now there is an attempt to provoke the BJP, threaten the Congress govt and pressurise the Supreme Court.
This is extremely disgraceful.Muslims are further deteriorating their image in the eyes of the people of this country by making such stupid claims at "injustice".But more than Muslims,it is the secular intelligentsia that is in utter disbelief.Their bread and butter have been snatched by the court.They are now attempting to attach the tag "controversial" to the judgment.This is similar to the attempts they made to whitewash history of Islamic iconoclasm.
To convincing you impartiality is like convincing Hitler that as people Jews are not bad people. So I would not even bother. The only way to deal with such South Asian Muslims is the way Europeans dealt with Sudetanland Germans. Now I can understand moral dilemma faced by the victims of Nazism that they were forced to behave in the same way as Nazis behaved. There is tragedy of Hindus. It seems like due to Muslim intransigence, they would have to behave like Muslims.
I think it is time to file a petition on behalf of the Idols of Mecca's Kaabba against the Prophet for breaking the Idols. Then, our Islamists will understand the link between documented proof and religion! We are the great Idol worshipers and our Idols are living being, divine, and can file against an invader like Babar. This is the fact, and being proved by the verdict. Now, please do not harp on it, otherwise, soon Hindus will file to regain the control of Kaabba.
It doe not matter. It does not matter that Allah exists or not. Prophet's followers believed he existed and assumed his command to destroy the temple of Al-Late, Al- Uzi and Al-Manatee. Now if Bikram were to file a petition on behalf of the Idols of Mecca's Kaabba against the Prophet for breaking the Idolsand for that action the_illusive_man supports chopping his head off, then using the_illusive_man’s logic Hindus will be justified in doing the same thing to Indian Muslims for daring to file petition against Ram Mandir in Ayodhya. Unless of course Muslims believe they are Herrenvolk and Kaffirs are Untermensch, master race and subhuman respectively
"Believe" should be good enough..Even Muslims cannot prove "Allah" exists. They cannot prove that Koran is revealed text and God's word..They can only "Believe" that...
The court case was fought for the Religion, by the Religion, so what do you expect Mr. Illusive Man...The Judgement would have to be based on Religion too :)
thats good. If you go to heaven(your hell) there virgins would be waiting for you. hahahahahah. even i studied this in science books.
btw why shud allah (we call it bhagwaan some others call it god) have anything to do with supplying you with virgins etc. may be science has something to do with it. so why cant all of you die and get to virgins.
For over 700 years Islamists have built on some of Hinduism's most sacred sites and created a direct affront and provocation to the peace loving Hindus. Untold number of temples were vandalized and statues brutalized. The brutal soldiers of Muhammed fanned out from Arabia and spread a reign of terror, destruction and domination. And now they talk of justice and property rights? What sort of lop-sided hypocrisy is this?
Someone has rightly said that democracy and secularism is the last refuge of the extremist. India is the last refuge of Islamic fundamentalists. Let them learn to respect other religions, beliefs and cultures .. only then will they come to peace with themselves and command the respect that they seek.
I wonder why, in spite of so many people having such strong feelings against these so called 'secular' muslim buggers, it so happens that the spineless Congress party manages to find a way to gain power at the center time and again. It seems they feel ashamed about fulfilling the aspiration of Hindus....for some weird freakin' reason. I can't imagine how a Hindu Congress party worker can sleep peacefully at night knowing very well that his parent organization is trying to jeopardize the standing of Hindus in this nation.
For some reason unbeknown to me, I seem to get a feeling that 'Secularism' in this country is defined not by how equally each religion is treated, but by the continuous compromise that Hindus are expected to make as a majority community to keep peace in the country and by how much others can ridicule Hindus in their own land.
It was the presence of small, independent kingdoms earlier that kept the Hindus from presenting a united front first against the Mughals and then against the British, and now its 'vote-bank' politics. I read articles mentioning the fact that some states are considering providing reservation to Muslims. I personally feel that is a daft idea, but if that is to be allowed, first the Constitution should be amended and India should be declared a majority Hindu nation.
No point in hoping to live in peace with this violent, scheming, brutal race that is still stuck in the medieval era and refuses to move ahead with the times. Enough is enough. It is time to call a spade and spade.
Muslims in India should consider themselves really fortunate.
Israelis still pursue the Nazis who destroyed Jewish heritage among other things. Muslims need to accept that their ancestors, who were intolerant of other religions, promoted forcible conversions, levied jeziah and destroyed hindu temples wantonly. One cannot turn a blind eye to the temples desecrated at Hampi, Belur and Halebid and many more. Wherever possible, Mosques were built on prominent hindu temples because they lived during times when might was right.
In a secular India, why is it that Muslims find it difficult to accept this? Why do they find it difficult to accept Hindus want their heritage back? If Muslims find it difficult to give up a mosque which was built on a temple in the first place, how should hindus feel about the temple?
Maturity is not in just promoting plurality of India by empty talk, Maturity is when we accept our past, right the wrongs where possible, and then move on the road where possible.
You are wrong. See 1750 to 1850's map of india, then you can see how martha kingdom and sikh empire had taken back from more than half of india. In fact Ranjit Singh and his decedents was ruling most of westpakistan, kashmir with lagore as capital until 1850 when sikh empire was defeated by british. If british hadn't come to india you guys and saved you, you would be singing ram bajans !!
First ask your intolerant anti-kafir paki mind why you guys give trouble and act special where-ever you go. You ( pakimuslims ) could not even live with Bengali muslims (east pakistan) for 25 years and killed 10 million east pakistanis. Hindus love and watch SRK, Salman Khan, Amir Khan movies. Do any minority community guy have become hero in any of paki movies ?
Nothing but a criminal attitude.
Hindus kept 1000yrs of islamic terrorism behind them. But still about half of the land was given to them to make their homeland(Pak). Instead of sharing the power with hindus they were driven out from pak.
Even then our forefathers decided to share the power with all in the land given to hindus(India).!!
What more secularism you muslims want? Is there one such community(like Hindus) in the entire history of planet? The result is ethnic cleansing in Kashmir? The result is we can not get a small piece of land which is sacred for us and nothing for you? You do not want to give our sacred land for us? Is it because you just want to islamize India? If not what is the motive behind obstructing the temple which is sacred to a massive faith?
Your stubborn behaviour would only lead to liberation of our other temples.
Please grow up. Live and let others live.
The judgment is based on law and Indian constitution. The verdict is so well derived that its almost impossible that it will be overturned by Supreme court. I challenge its the final verdict and final solution. The high court has solved the issue.
The court was asked whether Ram is "believed to be born on that place". The waqf board had argued Hindus started saying it birthplace only after 1949. The court referenced about 120 accounts of travellers to established that same place is believed as Ramjanmabhoomi for time immemorial.
The court was asked if there was a temple before ? It referred to the ASI report.
The deity Ram was given a third of land by article 25 of constitution which entitles state protection to most important beliefs.
None of the claiments proved that they possessed the land. The court reffered to ancient brotherhood and divided the remaining land between Hindus and Muslims.
A very prudent judgement which is the ultimate solution, whether you accept it now or latter.
I simply can't understand the fuss the court has transgressed. Because the media believed that court can't solve this issue and it has been proved wrong it is giving false impression of judgement to the people.
Please bring on the debate. Because it is simple. Islamic invaders came from outside of India. They killed and converted hundreds and thousands of Indians. They pillaged and destroyed Indian heritage. They are still doing it -- recall Bamiyan statues. There was a revolt against these monstrosities -- Sikhs, Maratha and so on. But then the Europeans came and the attention got diverted. Now after 7-800 years Bharat is awakening and returning to its roots. Ram is and was a part of Indian soul even before Islam existed. Ram is a part of Indian ethos. And it WILL be restored. A wrong committed 800 years ago is a still a WRONG. And it has to be righted.
Oh really. And you replaced it by oppressing Hindus, k i l l i n g them for not converting to islam, putting Guro Tag Bahadur on a metal plate, k i l l in n g Guru Gobins children we know our history.
Do tell us where you also liberating the oppressed Americans in New York on 9/11? Or how about the Balkans, where you divided and partitioned the country. The muslims have lied there way in history we know all about you.
There is even proof in muslims books that you destroyed temples ...
The literary evidence stated below is in chronological order with reference to the time at which a particular work was written.
Name Of The Book: Hindustan Islami Ahad mein (India under Islamic Rule)
Name Of The Historian: Maulana Abdul Hai.
About The Author: He is a highly respected scholar and taken as an authority on Islamic history. Because of his scholarship and his services to Islam, Maulana Abdul Hai was appointed as the Rector of the Darul Nadwa Ullum Nadwatal-Ulama. He continued in that post till his death in February 1923.
The following section is taken from the chapter Hindustan ki Masjidein (The mosques of India) of the above mentioned book. Here we can see a brief description of few important mosques in India and how each one of them was built upon plundered Hindu temples.
1. Qawwat al-Islam Mosque at Delhi:
"According to my findings the first mosque of Delhi is Qubbat al-Islam or Quwwat al_Islam which, Qutubud-Din Aibak constructed in H. 587 after demolishing the hindu temple built by Prithvi Raj and leaving certain parts of the temple outside the mosque proper; and when he returned from Ghazni in H. 592 he started building, under orders from Shihabud -Din Ghori, a huge mosque of inimitable red stones, and certain parts of the temple were included in the mosque..."
2. The Mosque at Jaunpur:
"This was built by Sultan Ibrahim Sharqi with chiselled stones. Originally it was a Hindu temple after demolishing which he constructed the mosque. It is known as the Atala Masjid.."
3. The Mosque at Qanauj:
"It is well known that this mosque was built on the foundations of some Hindu temple that stood here. The mosque was built by Ibrahim Sharqi in H. 809 as is recorded in Gharbat Nigar"
4. Jami Masjid at Etwah:
"This mosque stands on the bank of the Jamuna at Etawah. There was a Hindu temple at this place, on the site of which this mosque was constructed.."
5. Babri Masjid at Ayodhya:
"This mosque was constructed by Babar at Ayodhya which Hindus call the birth place of Ramchandraji... Sita had a temple here in which she lived and cooked for her husband. On that very site Babar constructed this mosque in H.963 "
6. Mosque at Benaras:
"Mosque of Benares was built by Alamgir Aurangzeb on the site of Bisheshwar Temple. That temple was very tall and held as holy among Hindus. On this very site and with those very stones he constructed a lofty mosque, and its ancient stones were rearranged after being embedded in the walls of the mosque. It is one of the renowned mosques of Hindustan."
7. Mosque at Mathura:
"Alamgir Aurangzeb built a mosque at Mathura. This mosque was built on site of the Govind Dev Temple which was very strong and beautiful as well as exquisite.."
Name Of The Book: Futuhu'l-Buldan
Name Of The Historian: Ahmed bin Yahya bin Jabir
About The Author: This author is also known as al- Biladhuri. He lived at the court of Khalifa Al- Mutawakkal (AD 847-861) and died in AD 893. His history is one of the major Arab chronicles.
To to the Sikh history it is just 550 years old,
Golden temple was occupied by Ahmed shah abdali ,was retaken by Sikhs
Guru Angad was made to sit on hot tawa as he refused to convert
Guru Teg Bahadur was beheaded at chandni chowk Delhi because he refused conversion,he did this for kashmiri pandits who sought his protection from the convesion spree let loose by Aurenzeb
Guru Govind singhs sons were buried alive in bricks at fathegarh Punjab as they refused conversion
Banda Bahadur was made to eat his kids flesh as a torture for his refusal to convert
This history is just 350 years old
The destroying of religious places,and forcible conversion are a part of islamic history,Babri mosque is no different
I would like to add, even today, in Afghanistan, Muslims step over Prithivraj Chauhan's tomb every day as a mark of disrespect to whom they consider as Kafir.
But I guess our secular muslims do not have any qualms about that.
MUSLIMS IN MINORITY ARE LIKE THEY R IN INDIA BUT WHEN IN MAJORITY THE SAME BUNCH BEHAVE LIKE THE ONES IN AFGHANISTAN OR KASHMIR VALLEY. ITS TIME TO GIVE THESE DISGRACE TO HUMANITY WHAT THEY DESERVE-YOU KNOW WHAT.
Very simple -
Muslims know that very well - rightly or wrongly Hindus believe for millenniums Rama and Ramayana. This is a fact.
I do not argue on this as we cannot argue on stories of Koran or bible.
There is no doubt and all the judges agree that there are remains of temple below the mosque. We all agree on that. It is difficult to ascertain if the temple was already broken when the mosque was constructed or the temple was broken for constructing mosque. Our common sense says the later may be true. Babur had no crunch of land those days
SO WHY ARE MUSLIMS SO ADAMENT TO MAKE THE MOSQUE AT THE SAME PLACE? They must realize they will suffer heavy casualties if riots take place now. Hindus are far more organized now.
SO HAVE SENSE AND ACCEPT GRACEFULLY THE VERDICT OF HIGH COURT and live in peace.
Muslims , Get the msg "Mugul" days have gone, stop dreaming about "Gazwa e hind"
I wish Hindusthan Times could block the comments getting posted from across the border. This is our internal debate, quite sensitive issue and I really can smell Pakistani and ISI fingers typing in a lot of provocative posts here. Please block all Pakistani IP address - they are using this news item to spread chaos in our country. This is as bad as the intruders in Kargil.
Any Muslim who thinks Sharia law is more important than Indian laws is a traitor and does not deserve to be in India...he is better off in Pakistan where Sharia rules supreme.
If we pick & choose everything in this materialistic world for full filling of our individual basic instincts then we are prone to become barbaric who brutalize this world for appropriating everything for our selfish ends.
1.) Denying depraved damages & destructions & deaths perpetuated by barbaric cruel invaders in India & elsewhere in the wold has become universally pliable political trend.
2.) Continuous suppression & twisting of historical factual truths has accumulated in stinking stagnated heap of lies which can not be buried by any gruesome tyrant of terrorism..
3.) Any larger or smaller debate on Ayodhya has to reckon with irrefutable fact that lord Rama is the presiding deity of Ayodhya from times immemorial.
4.) Invaders destroyed most revered religious symbols of lord Rama in Ayodhya & used the material from their ruins to build their own symbols of assertive religious presence.
Similar misadventures were repeated in all holy places of worship including Varanasi Mathura.& many other places sacred to many preexisting indegenous religions of India.
5.) Forcible conversions by coercive tyrant tortures were the hall mark of autocratic rulers.
6.) Cultural social & religious evolution in India had been in most advanced stages when external invaders tried to decimate them for running writ of their own faith.
7.) Despite many infrastructural heritage relics having been destroyed in India by cruel invaders who were plundering habitual looters the traditional religious beliefs of Hinduism Jainism Bhudhism & various other non violent faiths survived & prospered despite all odds through verbal or documented perpetuation.
8.) Hinduism Bhudhism & Jainism survived & spread by non violent means because these are not at all strictly close ended codes oriented faiths & have always transformed as per needs of changing way of life according to the variation of time place & persons.
9.) All forms of rituals & individual preferences in practicing religious beliefs in Hinduism Budhism Jainism are validated & are held in high esteem.
10.) Idol worship was resorted to perpetually remember & respect our ancestors whose existence is matter of fact but cannot be pin pointed exactly in any frame work parameters of time & space.
Similarly existence of lord Rama lord Krishna & all other our revered deities is irrefutable matter of fact which is ardently supported by our faith in our unshakable religious beliefs.
No entities should try to deny & distort any facts of history howsoever reprehensible they may be yet the lessons must be learnt so as not to repeat such oddities of tyrant treasons.
Most dangerous & deviant will be any effort by any entity to undo & nullify Ayodhya court verdict through back door conspiracies by resorting to any constitutional amendments applicable retrospectively.
Most sagacious sane sedate serene way is accommodative constructive conclusive time bound dialog between contending & vociferously legally contesting entities with the spirit to of give & take to embark upon mutually agreed path of maximizing all round pacification & for final corrective remedial measure to erase as for as possible aberrations of history in order to henceforth immediately facilitate peaceful fraternizing & friendly coexistence of majority & all minorities in India.
Roger_the_king 1 day ago
They now want to hold onto the 1/3rd alms given to them by magnanimous Hindus and turn it into a mosque and then grab the remaining 2/3rds through SC ! Wow! These moslems.......They got Pakistan and Bangladesh and remained back in India to finish the task of islamizing India. They are getting there almost with self-destructive non-moslems like Vir Sangvi and his ilk......Hindus, fight for that 1/3rd piece of land given to these anti-nationals. Lets not be complacent. Moslems, it is proven time and again, don't believe in any secularism unless it is Islam!
Rohit Kumar 1 day ago
This is the problem with muslims, if you give them their part, they will demand for all. They would never try living in peace.
Hindus have tolerated all faiths - be it Christians in Kerala or Parsis in Gujarat and Muslims in Ajmersharif or even communists in Bengal. Still these faiths do not show any understanding for the Hindu pain. That Sri Ram existed is questioned by some and needs to be answered. That there was a temple there is another.Here is a finding that may throw some light :
Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon).
This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114 BC. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7121 years back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India.
Ask a Muslim, whether Islam has in its history of nearly 1400 years, has done any wrong to anyone. Overrunning of Egypt, North Africa, Lebanon, Syria, Central Asia, Spain, Greece- extracting Jiziya from non-Muslims, converting churches, temples in mosques, destruction of Buddhist universities like Nalanda. What was so wrong in all of them- Jihad had to be declared against them simply because they refused to embrace Islam. Rather all wrongs and injustices of the world have been committed against Muslims, which need to be redressed, if necessary retributed. Is it not?
Actually Hindus should be cautious here. Their aim should be to of much larger than this temple or other temple issues. If Hindus can construct a temple here, Muslims will destruct temples in many other places like Assam and West Bengal. They are in precarious condition. Congress will go to any length to appease to attract Muslim vote bank.
There is nothing really like secular Islam ans secular Muslim. It is just convenience for certain Muslims to speak for secularism at present. But their ultimate goal is Sharia.
Hindus should not look to BJP; every Hindu should learn what is Sharia and what is in Islamic doctrines. When one tries to read they will find that ultimate test of faith for Muslims is to succeed in bringing the whole world under Sharia. There are numerous calls for Jihad in Koran and Islamic traditions.
If a Hindu knows this, then he should try to educate others about this. This is struggle for existence, nothing less. The best way to learn about Islam is read from their proper authentic Islamic sources; Like translations of Koran from yusuf ali, pickthall and Shakir or Hilali. Vast research was done on Islamic doctrines by infidels and it is available on the net.
Unless Indians realised the facts, the bitter facts, the Muslim problem will not go away. In the psyche of Muslims, it is a injustice unless the judgement is in their favour 100%. If the verdict is not of their liking, such as Ayodhya verdict, then Islam is in danger, minority has been cheated, "Saffron terrorism" is driving Muslims to alienation etc. Then Islamic terrorism starts as in Kashmir, 26/11 etc. In simple English, Muslims must have 100% in their favour or jihad is coming.
I fail to understand , the question asked to the court was that " was mosque constructed after demolishing a temple" to which court has ruled in affirmative , where is the controversy ??,
The real controversy is the Sunni waqf board's stand , which is both legally and morally wrong , here's how..
1. The suit filed by sunni waqf board is in 1961 , 12-13 yrs after the initial title suit was filed in 1949, as per the law any contention has to be filed within 5 years so there is a legal technicality here...
2. second and most important "Mir Baki" who built the mosque on the orders Babar was a "SHIA" and therefore could not have given to Sunni waqf board....
So there is no question of sunni board trying to get the possession of the disputed land except to incite hatred and of course secular media has come to there help as always with the help of some eminent historians..
Yes, They should convert to Islam if they wish to burn in hell fire and to Buddhism or Hinduism if they want to explore possibility of Moksha or Nirvana. Choice is theirs. But a convert to Islam will be surely get hell fire because they chose it, as opposed to a person born in Islam because he is born in Islam as result of his karma in previous life.
If the AIMPLB cannot accept the verdict, then it has the right to "debate its nature" at the Supreme Court. The call for "larger national debate" by the AIMPLB only proves that it does not standby the Indian constitution and its secular society. The AIMPLB must never be allowed to revise India's map and re-write its constitution. It is most unfortunate that the AIMPLB is considered at the 'worst in-house enemy" of the Indian Muslims.
HT
I have news for the leader of Germany. The Muslims cater only to their own culture and religion. That's why the world is getting turned upside down, trying to cater to their way of thinking. No one wants their culture, accept them and they are not permitted to adapt to any other culture! That's exactly why they are trying to take over the world. They will threaten and intimidate everyone they can to get their way. They have no other choice. I feel sorry for the German leaders and the people because they are going to go down the same road as France. The difference is that France stood up and resisted the laws of the Muslims, which is what must be done if you don't want them to take over and have complete control! There is only one culture that they are permitted to live and that is their own!!! They are using America's constitution against America, to get their way! Before long, our supreme court will be forced to give in to them because we must be tolerant, while they are NOT!!
To understand Muslims and Quran, three things people should know:
1. The Quran must be taken literally; it is not full of symbolism or vague commands. It is a book written by Mohammad during his lifetime. If two passages contradict each other, the later one is to be followed. The peaceful, tolerant passages were written earlier; they are abrogated by later more violent, less tolerant passages. Muslims are not permitted to pick and choose, alter, or ignore any part of its very clear and direct message, or they will burn in a fiery torment forever.
2. Striving to implement sharia law is a religious duty for every Muslim. Many people don’t realize how politically oriented Islam is at it’s core. It’s less of a religion than it is an “ideology”. It includes a mandatory and highly specific legal and political plan for all people, everywhere, the plan is Sharia Law. There is no separation between the religious and the political in Islam. Islam and Sharia constitute a totalitarian means of ordering society at every level, including ritual worship transactions and contracts, morals and manners, beliefs and punishments. In the Quran, Allah makes it clear that man made governments, such as a democracy, and free speech, such as criticizing the Quran and Mohammed, are abominations and must be eliminated and punished by death. The modern expression ‘creeping sharia’ is used to describe the slow, deliberate and methodical advance of Islamic law in Non-Muslim countries. Official Sharia courts already operate in the UK, handling cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to domestic violence. Attempts to introduce Sharia into the legal system in Germany, Sweden and other European countries are ongoing. Sharia already has a foot in our door in the matter of minor disputes like inheritance and domestic violence; it should concern you that Sharia commands that drinkers and gamblers be whipped, husbands be allowed to beat their wives, allows an injured plaintiff to exact revenge… literally an eye for an eye; commands that a thief must have a hand cut off, commands that homosexuals be executed, unmarried fornicators be whipped, adulterers must be stoned to death; orders death for Muslim and non Muslim critics of Mohammed, the Quran and sharia; orders apostates to be murdered. Sharia and the Quran demand that offensive, aggressive and unjust jihad be implemented in non Muslim countries. It is written in the Quran that Sharia is the law of Allah and other forms of government are a sin. It is the duty of every Muslim to keep striving until all governments have been converted to Sharia law or obliterated.
3. Muslims are permitted to lie to non Muslims if it helps Islam; for non Muslims this principle called Taquiyya is a surprising concept. While other religions speak of truthfulness, the Quran tells Muslims to lie to non Muslims about their belief and political ambitions in order to protect and spread Islam. There are many examples of today’s Islamic leaders saying one thing in English for the western press and then something entirely different to their followers in Arabic. Deceiving the enemy is always useful in war and Islam is always at war with the non Islamic world until all follow sharia law. All non Muslims living in non Islamic states are enemies; deceiving the west is totally acceptable and encouraged if it forward the goals of the spread of Islam..
first of all you are describing one version of Islam.
second, muslims are allowed to lie and trick people only on battle field (makes sense right)
third, the Islam in not a religion of worship only, it is a religion that is practical and sensitive to society needs, and it favors society before the individual. (sounds political doesn't it)
So, how many versions are there - a peaceful version, a violent version, a terrorist version?
For your second point, Muslims consider all non-Muslims countries as battlefields.
For your thord point, the practical and sensitive part is to draw people to it and convince people to convert. That is the trick.
It is very political, that is why Muslims are able to confuse everyone and say Quran is peaceful.
Hey Safiahmed, name one country where Muslims are making it a better place to live. Name one country where radicals of YOUR religion have not hijacked the country and turned it into a cesspool of fear and hatred.
Name ONE country where Islam is helping everyone, women included, achieve a better life.
I desperatly wish the moderate Muslims take control of their religion around the world, so that mankind can move one step closer to acting like brothers, instead of competitors.
Radical Islam is now the largest problem in the world. Overshadowing pollution, the slave trade, and the human rights violations of some of the larger countries in the world.
Peace be with you. Asa lama leikum.
The westerners came and made you prosperous,over the period the Muslim governments could have taken over the institutions,they did not,simply because
democracy,human freedom was crushed by their rulers,
no education,
no equality ,
no college,no universities
only religious fundamentalism was encouraged
Their infighting made easy for minority,war striken jews to make their homeland
They never invested in the most precious resource a country has,its human beings
Rulers drunk with power opiated the masses with religion
Their veiw point of Islam being the exclusive god send religion for people added to all their miseries
I have news for the leader of Germany. The Muslims cater only to their own culture and religion. That's why the world is getting turned upside down, trying to cater to their way of thinking. No one wants their culture, accept them and they are not permitted to adapt to any other culture! That's exactly why they are trying to take over the world. They will threaten and intimidate everyone they can to get their way. They have no other choice. I feel sorry for the German leaders and the people because they are going to go down the same road as France. The difference is that France stood up and resisted the laws of the Muslims, which is what must be done if you don't want them to take over and have complete control! There is only one culture that they are permitted to live and that is their own!!! They are using America's constitution against America, to get their way! Before long, our supreme court will be forced to give in to them because we must be tolerant, while they are NOT!!
If I came to live in your house, and after you accepted me as your guest, I tried to tell you that your way of life is no good and that you should in fact live like me in your house. How would you like that?
That is what the muslims are doing. They want the whole world to live the islamic way of life when the visit a muslim country and yet when the muslims step outside of their world and go to other parts of the world, they don't want to live like the way of their host. There is a saying which goes," In Rome live like the Romans do."
You cannot expect to migrate to different parts of the world and expect others to live a isolated life. Mix with the society and these issues would not come up. I don't expect muslims in west to live a non islamic life style within their own homes, but out side they should make an effort to mix and not expect the host country to convert to islamic way of life. We have in the west, migrants who have nothing of their own, seek refuge and get social and financial benefit without contributing to the society, and yet demonise the host country.
If these attitudes do not change, then there will be more comments from world leaders similar to the ones made by Germny and France.
Interesting - the Muslims are generally a peaceful people, but with a political agenda. They are attempting to literally take over the world by force without firing a shot. They migrate all over Europe and the U.S. and other places and impose their religion and Sharia law on the people under the guise of " if you don't allow us to do this, we will pull the race card out". Upon pulling of said "race card", they have a free ticket to do whatever they want where ever they want. For example - the ground zero mosque, or look at what has happened to France and Norway and Sweden. I hope France continuses to push back, the U.S. is only a couple steps behind the situation in Europe. All this without firing a shot, quite an agenda, no?
Dudeman, you are spot on. When a Muslim says he wants peace, he is saying that when you and I (as well as the whole world) become Muslim, too, then there will be peace. And not until then. This definition is straight from the lips of honest Muslims. Peace means total adherence to Islam.
Here's the bottom line: The Muslims are a political cancer that is fast spreading throughout the world, and like cancer, we have no cure. Yes, Muslims are less about religion and more about political takeover, don't take my word for it, it's clearly spelled out in the Koran ( or Quran, or Kuran or however it is spelled ).
See I dont have any hard feelings towards my Muslim brothers but please don't berate Hinduism by saying that it promotes Monotheism. Hinduism and its offshoot Buddhism believe in the fact that there are many paths to God and our path may or may not be the correct one, and hence the respect for all religions. I dont know what Islam promotes but the fact remains that people do not see Islam as promoting universal brotherhood. Hinduism on the other hand may or may not be perfect but it did promote the spread of a number of religions such as Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism in the Indian subcontinent which speaks volumes for its polytheistic nature.
In Turkey, Muslims do not allow a cross from showing up over an Armenian church, at another Armenian Church the Turkish Ultra Nationalist party desecrates the church by holding an Islamic Friday prayer yet in Germany and Europe they want equality and human rights.
Posts
No comments:
Post a Comment